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Divergent (Divergent, #1) Divergent discussion

Factionless - why you no rebel?

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Ordlas I haven't read Allegiant yet but I read the other two and am wondering why the faciontless are down and out. If there are so many Divergents in their number, some leaders should have arisen to fight against the system.

Angie Elle Remember that it's not necessarily Divergents that are factionless, as society tries to eliminate Divergents.

I thought it was mostly people who had switched factions and then didn't make it within those new factions.

Ordlas And I thought it was a combination of both. If Tris hadn't made it in Dauntless she would've been factionless provided she didn't get killed.

So if there are Divergents, some of them should be brave enough to lead a rebellion.

Emily Wait...are you sure you read Insurgent?

Angelica I think you should first finish reading the trilogy. :)

Ordlas okay, if it all comes together in Allegiant I'll wait until I finish that. thx

Ilana lol - you def get a sense of the whole story - but to agree with what some folks here said, you can be factionless because of

1) you got cut from initiation
2) you were kicked out of your faction for some reason
3) you chose to leave your faction

the other piece is that i can't remember which book says it - it could be Divergent, the largest concentration of Divergent are in Abnegation, and they are the ones who help the factionless, so there's a link there as well.

you def get more into it when you read the end of Insurgent and then Allegiant. there's a deeper story line that unfolds.

Rachel I'm pretty sure that Abnegation has the highest number of Divergent in the faction system. but since the factionless aren't part of the system, I don't think they count in that statement. factionless have the most from what i can remember.

Kristen It does say that the highest number of Divergents that they are aware of are in Abnegation. However, it also says that no one thought of the factionless when they were figuring that out. They aren't even aware of how many factionless there really are. So the highest number of Divergents are probably among the factionless.
And yes, while a large number of the factionless come from those who couldn't cut it within the faction system, a lot (probably most) come from being born outside of the system.

And if you think about it, the idea of being factionless would tend to create more Divergent people. Within the system, you have kids growing up, being told that they have to be one of five things - smart, brave, selfless, honest, or friendly. The 'weirdos' are the Divergents - the ones who break away from conformity. There's no such ideas in the factionless. There, you are who you are. In that type of setting, it'd be the 'weirdos' who actually conform to one of the five prescribed groups.

But back to the original question, yes, the factionless outnumber everyone else, so logically it's only a matter of time before they would take over.

Rachel out of curiosity... what Kristen just said got me thinking: "most come from being born outside of the system." Anyone remember Tris or Tobias mention factionless KIDS during their time there? Are the factionless allowed to have kids? Do their kids go to the choosing ceremony? or can their kids be taken away from their factionless parents at an early age to be raised in, say, Abnegation?

Kristen Yeah, kids were mentioned. But I forget where exactly.

I don't think the factions much care about the factionless kids. They basically ignore the the factionless as a whole.
They see the factionless as being 'broken'. Sort of an extension of the GP/GD thing of the people outside of the city, even thought they don't know about all that yet. So I think they would assume any kids born to factionless are 'broken' as well and wouldn't want them integrated into their tidy little world.

Rachel That makes a lot of sense... But still I feel like someone like Jeanine would worry that with the number of factionless growing every day without kids involved that with kids involved the factionless could override the whole system she's trying to "fix." But i get that this probably wasn't in any corner of Roth's mind when she wrote the books. So i understand that its missing. But still... Fans have to have their curiosities, right?

message 13: by Kristen (last edited Apr 03, 2014 08:17AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kristen Yes, that's one of the major plot holes, in my opinion. And not just in Chicago. (view spoiler)

Rachel Ah yes. Plot holes in Allegiant lead to plot holes everywhere. I liked the story. Loved it for the first two books. But thought of Allegiant afterward just ruined everything. There's too much wrong with the set up. But hey, unless Roth writes some 500 page epilogue for after Allegiant, I suppose those holes will never be filled.

Kristen I loved the first two, but honestly, I don't think anything can fix the mess she made of it. Short of Tris or Tobias waking up to realize it was all some sort of simulation where they never actually left Chicago, the direction it went in Allegiant ruined it completely.

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